18:05:29 From douglasclark : Building are are designed to meet code. One of the most BASIc steps to preliminary design is Occupant Load Factor. 18:05:48 From douglasclark : I am not seeing occupant load factor in Chapter 3, maybe I missed it 18:06:08 From douglasclark : If not what is the minimum square foot per occupant in a long term shelter. 18:11:05 From Paul Oliver to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : Can you ask Jay at end of meeting, if one can not see radioactive dust collect, I assume there is minimum chance of radiation sickness? 18:11:35 From James : 4" for concrete? 18:12:34 From douglasclark : Multiple other sources cite “something other” than 4” for concrete…2.4”??? 18:12:46 From liveunderwater : Every 4" of concrete will half the radiation. 18:13:25 From TACDA, Roseanne to Bruce Curley(Direct Message) : message from chat: Can you ask Jay at end of meeting, if one can not see radioactive dust collect, I assume there is minimum chance of radiation sickness? 18:13:50 From douglasclark : https://modernsurvivalblog.com/nuclear/nuclear-radiation-shielding-protection/ 18:13:51 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "Every 4" of concrete..." with 👍 18:14:01 From douglasclark : 2.4” for concrete in the table 18:14:34 From Phil Smith KC3FGE : What is the protection factor of 1/4" hard steel? 18:14:52 From douglasclark : 1.0 according to the same source in link above 18:15:10 From douglasclark : That’s 1 inch 18:16:28 From TACDA, Roseanne to douglasclark(Direct Message) : Hi Doug, if possible could you answer this question from a member? If one can not see radioactive dust collect, I assume there is minimum chance of radiation sickness? 18:17:09 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "That’s 1 inch" with 👍 18:17:50 From Hank : maybe install a perascope? 18:18:05 From douglasclark to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : Ok Thank you for asking. Lots of dust is invisible ot the naked eye, similar to pollen allergy suffers, so any assumption of not “seeing” dust would not be a correct assumption 18:19:00 From douglasclark to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : Inhaled dust is dangerous becuase not just gamma, but alpha and beta particles can cause ailment, sometimes short term, other long term 18:20:12 From TACDA, Roseanne to Paul Oliver(Direct Message) : Hello Paul, Ok Thank you for asking. Lots of dust is invisible ot the naked eye, similar to pollen allergy suffers, so any assumption of not “seeing” dust would not be a correct assumption 18:20:13 From douglasclark to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : The two broad categories are acute radiation syndrome shot shirt term affects o radiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome 18:20:25 From James : The only thing I can think of is 2.4"x160% for ASD design factor? If it's code, that might explain it. 18:20:37 From James : 3atm 18:20:47 From TACDA, Roseanne to Paul Oliver(Direct Message) : Inhaled dust is dangerous becuase not just gamma, but alpha and beta particles can cause ailment, sometimes short term, other long term. Answered by Douglas Clark 18:21:20 From douglasclark to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : And chronic radiation syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_radiation_syndrome for long term delayed effects 18:21:56 From TACDA, Roseanne to Paul Oliver(Direct Message) : And chronic radiation syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_radiation_syndrome for long term delayed effects. Douglas Clark 18:22:37 From douglasclark to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : Periscope? It may be useful but not for radiation measurements, gieger counter is the standard tool for detection and threat level 18:24:33 From TACDA, Roseanne to douglasclark(Direct Message) : Can you resend that last message to the group? I think it just went to me. Thank you! I appreciate all of your input! 18:26:26 From Hank : would a factory made storm shelter work if it was installed in the ground? 18:27:05 From douglasclark : Hi Doug, if possible could you answer this question from a member? “If one can not see radioactive dust collect, I assume there is minimum chance of radiation sickness?” Ok Thank you for asking. Lots of dust is invisible to the naked eye, similar to pollen allergy suffers, so any assumption of not “seeing” dust would not be a correct assumption Inhaled dust is dangerous because not just gamma, but alpha and beta particles can cause ailment, sometimes short term, other long term The two broad categories are acute radiation syndrome shot shirt term affects o radiation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome And chronic radiation syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_radiation_syndrome for long term delayed effects 18:27:21 From douglasclark : I would like to comment one these city improvised shelter topics 18:28:00 From douglasclark : WE keep the fireman tools in our SUV, Haligan Bar, Slege hammer and 36" Bolt cutters 18:28:39 From douglasclark : We have pre-reconoiterrd potential urban fallout locations in our common areas of shopping and dining 18:28:55 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "We have pre-reconoit..." with 👍 18:28:57 From David : Is there a diagram of that shelter 18:29:05 From douglasclark : YouTube videos can teach you how to get though any locked door with the halligan bar 18:30:26 From TACDA, Roseanne : Remember that your shelter needs a 90 degree entrance. The 90-degree turn into the entrance will stop (attenuate) about 90% of the gamma radiation from the entering the shelter. 18:30:35 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "Remember that your s..." with ❤️ 18:30:57 From James : FM 5-103 is great for calculating stringer/diaphragm earth covered shelters. 18:31:20 From douglasclark : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFq9W_Wf-g 18:31:59 From douglasclark : As a licensed architect we do NOT recommend ANY open flame devices in Any fallout shelter. 18:32:48 From douglasclark : Our default is an induction cooktop, microwave and a 5 liter Elric vacuum tea pot 18:32:48 From GNM’s iPhone (2) : Where can we obtain info on increase threat or readiness without relying on DHS threat levels, media, government announcements. 18:34:02 From douglasclark : Electric tea kettle- typo exact product 18:34:03 From douglasclark : https://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-CD-LFC50-Panorama-Window-Boiler/dp/B0166OD6J0/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=zojirushi+water+boiler+5+liter&qid=1698366826&sr=8-3 18:34:30 From Nick - Ohio : Replying to "Where can we obtain ..." The murky and confusing world of OSINT - open source intelligence. Always take everything with a grain (or more) of salt. 18:34:50 From douglasclark : Heat/vs. cold, moderate temps, the issue may be dew point condensation. Isulateover your shelter 18:35:19 From douglasclark : My Occupant Load Factor Question remains unanswered 18:35:53 From James : As far as what? 18:37:11 From Bruce Curley to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : https://www.repurposedmaterialsinc.com/ for inexpensive supplies to build your shelter 18:37:19 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "As far as what?" with 👍 18:38:37 From James : 15 sqft seated, guessing double that for lying down bare minimum. Just a SWAG. 18:38:40 From douglasclark : Building are designed to meet code. One of the most BASIC steps to preliminary design is Occupant Load Factor. I am not seeing occupant load factor in Chapter 3, maybe I missed it If not; what is the minimum square foot per occupant in a long term shelter? 18:39:02 From douglasclark : Thats a BS SWAG 18:39:31 From douglasclark : That’s assembly occupancy for theater. 2-3 hours 18:40:04 From James : Survival, or comfortable survival? 18:40:49 From douglasclark : Professional Standard of Care for HSW as a licensed architect. 18:40:56 From Nick - Ohio : Jay - are there agriculture related resources beyond "Fallout on the Farm"? You mentioned farming tools for the shelter, but honestly it boggles my mind to consider removing 6" (or whatever it is) of topsoil over a massive area. Wouldn't we need to continue to be concerned about leaching of radioisotyopes from edge areas that haven't been remediated? 18:42:09 From Hakima RobinsonRashad : Survive and thrive. 18:43:32 From James : Well, as a licensed architect, you certainly outrank me. But I'm just thinking absolute minimums, not something that will make the Mrs. or the inspector happy. 18:43:55 From G K : DO you have the link for the list you were just referring to. 18:45:04 From TACDA, Roseanne : From Sharon Packer on Occupant Load Factor.: she suggests 10 sq ft per person but we can look it up and verify. Will get back to you through email. 18:45:19 From douglasclark : https://survivedoomsday.com/download-free-pdf-fallout-shelter-designs/ 18:45:44 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "From Sharon Packer o..." with 👍 18:46:10 From James : Reacted to From Sharon Packer o... with "👍" 18:47:21 From Kate Harris : Thanks for the link, Doug! 18:49:45 From James : https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/expedient_fallout_shelter_construction_1976.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjrxZ_5gJWCAxVNJkQIHeoMDVsQFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ufEZOzRxLtn-6s9ksdTy4 18:54:18 From Hakima RobinsonRashad : Fast Attack submarines have a crew of around 134, broken into about 120 enlisted and 14 officers, while SSBNs have an additional 16 enlisted and usually an additional officer 18:54:30 From Nick - Ohio : Reacted to "Fast Attack submarin..." with 👍 18:55:32 From James : Only shelter people you like with you? 18:57:39 From Lee : Reacted to "Only shelter peopl..." with 😂 18:57:59 From James : Chinese shelter standards are more like my thinking, I reckon. 18:59:11 From Marc Smith : Thanks!! 18:59:11 From James : Andaire diy alternatives? 18:59:22 From douglasclark : Thank for everyone comments, subs etc 18:59:32 From Lee : Thank you. And thank you Doug for the interesting info you shared. 19:00:52 From douglasclark : You’re welcome! everyone is welcome to ask Q’s Douglas@securelifehomes.com 19:00:59 From Bruce Curley to TACDA, Roseanne(Direct Message) : Doug...do you have a website? 19:01:26 From douglasclark : We like the 60CFM American safe room “SafeCell” 19:01:35 From James : Thanks everyone 🙂🙏🙏 19:01:44 From Dr. Gail Littell : Reacted to "Thank for everyone c..." with 👍🏻 19:01:50 From douglasclark : https://americansaferoom.com/nbc-air-filtration/ 19:01:50 From Dr. Gail Littell : Reacted to "Thank you. And thank..." with 👍🏻 19:02:07 From Brent Fenton : good job! 19:02:21 From douglasclark : Great presentation thanks 19:02:58 From James : God bless